Now we find out what happens...

[Ballfrozy]

..,when we dont make 4th and those two thieving fuckers who own us lose a fortune.

Couldnt happen to two nicer assholes.

I hope Spurs get the 4th place now, i think they deserve it more than Citeh.

[abharrisson]

I'd backed Liverpool to finish 4th until recently, but now if villa/city/spurs win their games in hand then Liverpool are an unthinkable 7 points back and fighting against three teams not one ( they can't all stumble surely)....... while I haven't seen the games the reports seem to indicate that the patient isn't showing much fight which must be the most worrying thing if true.

Mind you as you say, not finishing 4th is going to mean squeaky bum time for the owners.. they don't strike me as the sort to turn around and say to Rafa.. right it hasn't worked, here's a fresh £50m... get rid of those you don't want and add in some new blood... the target has to be to finish 4th next season and then push on ...... I may be wrong but I just can't see them dipping their hands in their pockets for the cash especially when it will be during a season of reduced income due to no CL...... will it make them reduce their crazy valuation ... I doubt it though.
if they do sell to someone good then its a case of every cloud has a silver lining, if they don't though it could be a nightmare.. Rafa goes, they don't make cash available and recruit a middle ranking manager, rafa then "attaracts" the better players , the money isn't re-invested in the side etc etc.

let me say in record I hope Liverpool make 4th, but the odds are begining to stack up against them.... maybe the best thing will happen, they'll just scrape 4th and the shock of how close they came to meltdown will persuade the yanks to push off.

[damian]

Hmm, so here's who I want to get 4th place in order of preference:

1: Everton, pretty unlikely, but nice inoffensive club
2: Liverpool, the lesser of many evils (read on...)
3: Villa. I hate Villa. Their fans are generally scum, and I hate brummies in general. But at least their European record will = them not getting past the qualifying round and being ridiculed roundly.
4: Spurs. Again, not a massive Spurs fan (understatement of the week? ), but they will probably struggle in the qualifying round especially seeing as it's unseeded and they could end up with a pretty decent team.
5: City. These are the team I'd least like to finish 4th (but probably the most likely to do it?). The simple reason is, if they finish 4th and qualify for the CL, they'll be able to attract the sorts of players who've always looked down on them... with their money, it could mean a powershift....

What about Rafa's interview last night? Looked like he'd given up on 4th place (didn't "guarantee" they'd beat Portsmouth at home next week, and presumably won't guarantee 4th place now), and was quite open in slagging off the players. I'll be amazed if he's still in the job next August, if Liverpool finish 5th or worse.

[Ballfrozy]

Yeah, agree with both your comments.

What Damian says about Citeh is also very true, if they get in they will be a nightmare to shift.

Rafa gone by August? Only a miracle will keep him in the job by May - regardless of 4th place.

It would be 3/4 years since Rafa won anything and at our club thats just too long.

Interesting times ahead - mainly with the owners as somethings gotta give.

[damian]

I was listening to a pundit on Sky the other day (can't remember who, but it's not all that relevant, just a random ex-footballer). Benitez won the Champions League with a team almost fully assembled by Houllier... since then he's signed a huge number of players (can't remember exactly how many, but is it in the 70s?), and slowly Liverpool have gone backwards. They pushed for the title last season, but didn't look particularly convincing IMO.... I thought their position flattered them a little (perhaps you could say the same about Arsenal this season), and this season they've been pretty luckless.

The big problem for Liverpool is Benitez hasn't been pro-active enough, and a few of Liverpool's key men have aged and/or left and not been replaced properly... Hyypia (although Kyrgiakos is starting to look decent), Riise, Carragher.... even Gerrard will be 30 by the end of the season. If another manager was to take over, he'd need to invest a decent sum to get them challenging for titles again.

[Ballfrozy]

I was listening to a pundit on Sky the other day (can't remember who, but it's not all that relevant, just a random ex-footballer). Benitez won the Champions League with a team almost fully assembled by Houllier... since then he's signed a huge number of players (can't remember exactly how many, but is it in the 70s?), and slowly Liverpool have gone backwards. They pushed for the title last season, but didn't look particularly convincing IMO.... I thought their position flattered them a little (perhaps you could say the same about Arsenal this season), and this season they've been pretty luckless.

The big problem for Liverpool is Benitez hasn't been pro-active enough, and a few of Liverpool's key men have aged and/or left and not been replaced properly... Hyypia (although Kyrgiakos is starting to look decent), Riise, Carragher.... even Gerrard will be 30 by the end of the season. If another manager was to take over, he'd need to invest a decent sum to get them challenging for titles again.

Not sure i can agree with a lot of that, Skrtel and Agger are young Centre backs and insua and Johnson are not exactly ancient either and they have all been brought in by Rafa to replace Hyypia / Finnan / Riise and eventually Carra.

Pepe Reina was im sure you would agree a brilliant find by Benitez as Goalies of his Quality are few and far between.

Mascherano was brought in to replace Hamman, Torres was not a bad purchase for the future either and you dont replace players like Gerrard as its just not possible to keep unearthing World Class Scousers all the time who will give thier all to your club.

So i cant agree that he hasnt been pro-active enough.

[goldthingy]

The problem liverpool or any of the top 4 will have if the dont make the champions league is the top players will want to leave .


I agree city will be hard to shift if they make it into the top 4

[damian]

Not sure i can agree with a lot of that, Skrtel and Agger are young Centre backs and insua and Johnson are not exactly ancient either and they have all been brought in by Rafa to replace Hyypia / Finnan / Riise and eventually Carra.

Pepe Reina was im sure you would agree a brilliant find by Benitez as Goalies of his Quality are few and far between.

Mascherano was brought in to replace Hamman, Torres was not a bad purchase for the future either and you dont replace players like Gerrard as its just not possible to keep unearthing World Class Scousers all the time who will give thier all to your club.

So i cant agree that he hasnt been pro-active enough.

But Insua is hardly at the same level as Riise (IMO), nor is Skrtel as good as Hyypia. Reina, Torres and Johnson are about the only three "improvements" Benitez has made to Liverpool.

[Ballfrozy]

[quoteI was listening to a pundit on Sky the other day (can't remember who, but it's not all that relevant, just a random ex-footballer). Benitez won the Champions League with a team almost fully assembled by Houllier... since then he's signed a huge number of players (can't remember exactly how many, but is it in the 70s?), and slowly Liverpool have gone backwards. They pushed for the title last season, but didn't look particularly convincing IMO.... I thought their position flattered them a little (perhaps you could say the same about Arsenal this season), and this season they've been pretty luckless.
][/quote]

I have heard things like this before, but you could also level the same argument about Arsenal when Wenger took over that the squad he first won the league with wasnt his.

Sure Benitez had to sign a lot of players, he recognised that the squad depth was nowhere near what was needed to close the gap on the contenders and to be fair to him a lot of the signings were youth players.

"and slowly Liverpool have gone backwards" Says to me that Liverpool have made no progress whatsover under Benitez, he has cut the points gap between LFC and the League winners every season he has been here apart from this "luckless" season so i find that statement to be balls quite frankly.

Benitez nor the next Liverpool manager will be able to cope with United or Chelsea and maybe even Citeh unless they are given money which isnt there.

[Ballfrozy]

Not sure i can agree with a lot of that, Skrtel and Agger are young Centre backs and insua and Johnson are not exactly ancient either and they have all been brought in by Rafa to replace Hyypia / Finnan / Riise and eventually Carra.

Pepe Reina was im sure you would agree a brilliant find by Benitez as Goalies of his Quality are few and far between.

Mascherano was brought in to replace Hamman, Torres was not a bad purchase for the future either and you dont replace players like Gerrard as its just not possible to keep unearthing World Class Scousers all the time who will give thier all to your club.

So i cant agree that he hasnt been pro-active enough.

But Insua is hardly at the same level as Riise (IMO), nor is Skrtel as good as Hyypia. Reina, Torres and Johnson are about the only three "improvements" Benitez has made to Liverpool.

I think you could maybe say Mascherano and Alonso were decent buys too - no?

If you compare the Arsenal team that Wenger took over to the one he has today how many positions would you say he has improved on? - I think maybe 1

[Ballfrozy]

All pointless banter though, as it will be all change in the summer and Rafa will be gone and Liverpool WILL start to sink down the table for, i would say at a guess 5 years.

But i will still support them and be overjoyed when those to viruses at our club are gone.

[Ballfrozy]

The problem liverpool or any of the top 4 will have if the dont make the champions league is the top players will want to leave .


I agree city will be hard to shift if they make it into the top 4

Correct, this is exactly what will happen.

Its what will sink us for the next 5 maybe a lot longer years.

Its our rivals dream to be honest.

[damian]

All pointless banter though, as it will be all change in the summer and Rafa will be gone and Liverpool WILL start to sink down the table for, i would say at a guess 5 years.

But i will still support them and be overjoyed when those to viruses at our club are gone.

Interesting, why do you say that? Even without a new stadium, Liverpool will be in the "top four" of best supported teams. The players you have, even the "shit" ones are still better than most midtable teams have. I reckon a new manager, one who exudes confidence rather than treating an interview like a bollocking by a teacher, will make a big difference.

Mark Hughes anyone?

[Ballfrozy]

I reckon a new manager, one who exudes confidence rather than treating an interview like a bollocking by a teacher, will make a big difference.

Really, I have never had a problem with the way Benitez does interviews - Other rival fans have, but i never have, ok sometimes his grasp of the English Language has not been great and he sometimes uses the wrong words but overall ive been happy enough.

I would like to point out too that allthough i have repeatedly stated that i think Benitez will be gone in the summer - this is not what i personally want to happen.

Why do i think we will slide down the table?

1. The people we have in charge of the selection process of our next manager are Americans who know absolutely NOTHING about "Soccer" so our new manager could very easily be Andy Gray.

2. As Goldy pointed out Players will leave the club. so those "players we have, even the "shit" ones who are still better than most midtable teams" will mostly be gone within a season or two to finance the purchases Andy Gray will be making.

3. Managers who are all "mouth" are usually found wanting in the Tactics department in big games unless they are Top Top Managers allready - So that new manager feelgood factor while maybe lasting a few months would fall apart and we would be back to square one.

Repeat for 5 or more years....

[damian]

Of course, but you could end up with someone like Hiddink who has proven pedigree at the top level. I'm sure there are people high up at Liverpool with a knowledge of the game (ie, I'm sure Benitez and Houllier weren't selected by the MD?). Benitez looks to me like he's given up and is waiting for the axe.